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Point Forward Profile

Point Forward

English, Sports, 3 seasons, 127 episodes, 5 days, 13 hours, 27 minutes
About
Andre Iguodala and Evan Turner are great friends. They’re also former NBA teammates whose versatility on the court endowed them with the nontraditional position that also happens to be the title of this podcast. But that’s not all. Extend those gifts off the court and you’ll find two truth-tellers who keep their finger on the pulse of sports, business, and culture. Each week join in as they unleash sharp analysis on everything from sports headlines & tech innovations to book reviews & internet memes. Throw in a rotating cast of some of the world’s most elite players, authors, musicians, and entrepreneurs, and Point Forward is a podcast taking the athlete conversation to the next level. Candid. Unconventional. Witty. Welcome to the future.
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Payton Pritchard on Olympic Basketball, NBA Championships, and his future on the court

Evan Turner talks Olympic ball with NBA Champion Payton Pritchard of the Boston Celtics. What’s it like watching three of your teammates play for Team USA? Could this year’s Celtics win a gold medal? And what’s next for Payton on the court? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
8/7/202421 minutes, 55 seconds
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Olympic Basketball Rebound

Point Forward brings you a special Olympic basketball episode. Revisit Andre and Evan’s conversations with Team USA greats Carmelo Anthony and Jayson Tatum. Hear insights from sports analyst Michael Wilbon and candid discussions between Andre and Evan with their Olympic hot takes. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
7/31/202438 minutes, 51 seconds
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Best NBA Draft Class of All Time, Angel Reese Puts On for Chicago, and Pippen’s Bold Claims

Andre and Evan discuss Angel Reese and her impact on the WNBA and Chicago Sky, Scottie Pippen's comments about Michael Jordan's stats, and what NBA draft class was the best of all time. Thank you to all our incredible listeners for your support and engagement throughout season three! We’ll be back soon. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
6/28/202425 minutes, 13 seconds
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2024 NBA Draft, Lakers Hire JJ Redick, Kendrick’s Pop Out Concert

Andre and Evan dive into the 2024 NBA Draft, breaking down the hottest prospects and theoretical team draft strategies. They react to the Lakers' headline-making hire of J.J. Redick as the new head coach and discuss its potential impact on the league. They also unpack the significance of Kendrick Lamar's electrifying pop-out concert and its cultural ripple effects. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
6/26/202442 minutes, 35 seconds
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Free Agency, Super Teams, & the NBA's Future

Evan and Andre dive into the new NBA free agency rules and how they affect teams and player negotiations. They discuss the evolution of super teams, the importance of basketball IQ and chemistry, and the challenges Team USA faces in building a cohesive unit for the Olympics. They also highlight how the NBA is in a great place and argue that critics who say it's not "entertaining" are watching for the wrong reasons. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
6/21/202435 minutes, 42 seconds
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Tatum, Brown, and Juneteenth: Celtics' Dynasty in the Making?

The Boston Celtics are the 2024 NBA Champions. Evan and Andre discuss the Celtics' win, the performances by Jaylen, Jayson and Al Hortford, next years’ luxury tax implications, and the impact of dynasties on the league. They also discuss the significance of Juneteenth and its recent recognition as a federal holiday. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
6/19/202434 minutes, 55 seconds
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Chloe Kim on Olympic Gold Medals, Din Tai Fung Dumplings, and Everything In Between

Evan and Andre are joined by snowboarding two-time Olympic gold medalist and seven-time X Games gold medalist, Chloe Kim Chloe opens up about starting in the sport, taking a break to attend Princeton, and her love for exploring new places. And of course her passion for Din Tai Fung dumplings.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
6/14/202446 minutes, 16 seconds
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Tatum's MVP Lead, Dave Portnoy's Sideline Antics, and Chris Brown's $1111 Meet-and-Greet

Andre and Evan discuss the Celtics and Mavs matchup as the series heads to Dallas, highlighting how Tatum is still leading the race for Finals MVP honors. They also touch on Dave Portnoy's sideline theatrics, Chris Brown charging $1000 for meet-and-greets, the Caitlin Clark Olympic “snub” controversy, and Dan Hurley’s decision to stay at Connecticut instead of taking a mega coaching deal with the Lakers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
6/12/202434 minutes, 21 seconds
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Dan Hurley or JJ Redick? Andre and Evan Weigh In

Andre and Evan discuss the Lakers' coaching situation now that Dan Hurley has entered the conversation with “frontrunner” JJ Redick, the NBA's instant gratification culture, and the influence of international players. Later in the show, Tasha Keeney, Director of Investment Analysis & Institutional Strategies at ARK Invest, joins this week’s edition of Money Moves to discuss all things autonomous and Tesla's long-term potential. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
6/7/202441 minutes, 56 seconds
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Luka Finally Meeting Tatum in the Finals, Reaction to Rasheed Wallace's '17 Warriors vs '04 Pistons

Evan and Andre revisit an old clip where they manifest the upcoming Tatum-Luka matchup, and Dre responds to Rasheed Wallace's take that the '17 Warriors would've smacked the '04 Pistons. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
6/5/202427 minutes, 28 seconds
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Is 4-1 a Sweep for the Mavs? Andre and Evan Weigh In

A 4-1 series win might not be a clean KO, but can we still call it a sweep? Evan and Andre also discuss the potential of the recently announced three-on-three women's league, along with the unique challenges and opportunities that WNBA players face. During this week's Money Moves, ET and Dre also discuss how the NBA and NBPA support athletes with financial education and resources, sharing stories about the early-career veteran mentors who helped them understand the importance of money management. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
5/31/202446 minutes, 46 seconds
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Could Kyrie Be a Number 1? Jayson Tatum's Legacy, and Trading a Jrue Holiday!

Andre and Evan dive into the NBA Eastern Conference Finals, analyzing standout player performances and the financial impact of sweeps. They discuss whether Kyrie can be a number 1, Jayson Tatum's legacy, and why a team would trade away Jrue Holiday. Conversation also covers player development, the significance of chemistry and leadership, and how Europe hoops are creeping up on the NBA in terms of talent. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
5/29/202442 minutes, 6 seconds
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Ebro Darden on Knicks, Dunk Contest Revamp, and Apple Music

Join Andre, Evan and Hot 97 DJ and Apple Music host Ebro Darden as they discuss the New York Knicks, Apple Music, and the future of hip hop. Ebro shares insights on the Knicks' performance, his music industry journey, and the importance of understanding and catering to the audience. The conversation also delves into advertising and media consumption trends, exploring ways to enhance the NBA All-Star game and dunk contest. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
5/24/202452 minutes, 54 seconds
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Caitlin Clark, Scottie Scheffler, Kyrie & Luka

In this episode of Point Forward, Andre and Evan dive into the NBA Eastern and Western Conference Finals matchups, analyzing team dynamics and predicting potential champions and Finals MVP. They discuss the synergy between Luka Doncic and Kyrie Irving and their impact on the game both on and off of the court. The conversation also addresses Scottie Scheffler's run-in with the police at the PGA Championships, the coverage of the WNBA, and the role of media in basketball. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
5/22/202459 minutes, 6 seconds
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Penny Hardaway: The OG Point Forward

Join Andre and Evan on this week’s edition of Point Forward as they dive into a highly anticipated conversation with NBA legend Penny Hardaway. They explore Penny’s unique journey as a tall point guard, playing alongside Shaq, and the evolution of the game over the past 30 years. Penny shares his coaching philosophy, his love for the Memphis community, and advice for young players in today's NBA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
5/17/202440 minutes, 58 seconds
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Chrono Conversation w/ Geneva Seal’s Alex Kats

Andre and Evan sit down with longtime friend and watch dealer Alex Katz to discuss the world of watches at his store, Geneva Seal, in Chicago. Throughout the conversation, they explore the store's history, share stories behind acquiring some of their favorite watches, and emphasize the importance of building relationships. They also touch on the value and investment potential of watches, as well as the evolving trend of athletes wearing luxury timepieces. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
5/15/202435 minutes, 52 seconds
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Glen Davis' Conviction, Angel Reese's Met Gala Appearance, and Derrick Lewis the WWE Wrestler

This week on Point Forward, Andre and Evan tackle the complexities of penalties for financial fraud, analyze the potential crossover of UFC fighter Derrick Lewis into WWE, and discuss the significance of WNBA players like Angel Reese attending high-profile events like the Met Gala. They also cover the importance of investing early and diversifying income sources. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
5/10/202436 minutes, 18 seconds
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Lakers Coaching Candidates & NBA Playoffs Round 2

In this week's episode of Point Forward, Andre and Evan break down the exciting NBA playoff matchups, including the standout series between Timberwolves vs. Nuggets series featuring 22 y/o superstar, Anthony Edwards. They also speculate on potential coaching options for the Lakers and the discuss the challenges of coaching in certain markets. Kevin Durant's future is also a topic of discussion, as Iguodala and Turner explore the possibility of him returning to the Warriors or joining the Thunder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
5/8/202439 minutes, 20 seconds
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Blake Bolden's Impact on Women's Hockey

Join Andre Iguodala and Evan Turner as they sit down with Blake Bolden, a trailblazing figure in women's hockey who became the first African-American player to compete in the National Women's Hockey League (NWHL). Throughout the show, hey explore Bolden's remarkable journey, the challenges she faced as a minority in the sport, and her unwavering commitment to promoting diversity and inclusion in hockey. Andre and Evan also discuss the importance of understanding debt, and the long-term impact of financial decisions on this week’s edition of Money Moves. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
5/3/202457 minutes, 3 seconds
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Carmelo Anthony Joins Point Forward's 100th Episode

In this special 100th episode of the Point Forward podcast, Andre Iguodala and Evan Turner celebrate the milestone by sitting down with special guest Carmelo Anthony for an in-depth conversation about his basketball journey. They discuss the evolution of the game, the importance of fundamentals, and Melo's personal experiences as a player, including the origin of "Hoodie Melo." Carmelo also shares his thoughts on building a community, his business ventures such as his wine brand VII(N)-The Seventh Estate and his cannabis brand STAYME70, the current state of the NBA and how he feels about the 2024 Team USA Men's Basketball team. Join us for an insightful and engaging discussion with one of the most talented players in basketball history as we commemorate 100 episodes of the Point Forward podcast. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
5/1/202458 minutes, 5 seconds
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Andre Iguodala & Evan Turner Talk Sports and Investment with Ethan Strauss and Brett Winton

In this week’s episode of Point Forward, hosts Andre Iguodala and Evan Turner sit down with ARK Invest's Chief Futurist Brett Winton and sports journalist Ethan Strauss. They explore topics such as the latest NBA award finalists, the role of analytics in basketball, and predictions for the NBA playoffs. The discussion also covers the impact of AI and robotics on various industries, and why ARK continues to believe in the work that Tesla is doing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
4/24/20241 hour, 30 minutes, 55 seconds
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Michael Wilbon Discusses The Power of Storytelling in Sports

Dive into another episode of the Point Forward podcast with hosts Andre Iguodala and Evan Turner. This week, they're joined by Michael Wilbon! They discuss the evolving world of basketball, emphasizing the pivotal roles of storytelling, communication, and the often-overlooked nuances that shape the sport. Explore how personal experiences, mentorship, and cultural diversity not only redefine the NBA but also underscore the power of inclusivity and legacy in shaping basketball's future. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
4/17/20241 hour, 39 minutes, 19 seconds
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Courts and Culture: The Point Forward Travel Guide - Shopping

Join Andre and Evan for their final episode of Courts and Culture, presented by Hennessy, as they share their favorite cities for shopping and the unique experiences each location offers. They discuss memorable shopping trips with teammates, the thrill of finding limited edition items, and how shopping differs from country to country. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
4/12/202421 minutes, 29 seconds
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Jaime Jaquez Jr.'s Journey & Basketball's Global Impact

Join Evan and Andre as they share their Masters picks and give their takes on the Timberwolves ownership saga. Evan sits down for an exclusive conversation with Heat rookie Jaime Jaquez Jr., exploring his remarkable basketball journey from UCLA to the Miami Heat, and discussing his aspirations to expand basketball's reach in Mexico and South America. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
4/10/20241 hour, 2 minutes, 14 seconds
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Welcome to Money Moves

In their inaugural episode of Money Moves Powered by Ark Invest, Andre and Evan discuss financial literacy and strategies for handling money, emphasizing the importance of setting goals, knowing your monthly overhead, and being efficient with your finances. They also talk about the power of compound interest, and learning the skill of saying no to unnecessary expenses. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
4/5/202411 minutes, 55 seconds
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Courts and Culture: The Point Forward Travel Guide - International Episode

Join Andre and Evan on their second installment of the Courts and Culture Travel Guide brought to you by Hennessy, as they dive into the world of international travel, sharing their firsthand experiences and the profound impact it's had on their lives. In this international focused episode, they discuss their very first trips abroad to their favorite destinations like Italy, Spain, and Nigeria. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
4/5/202421 minutes, 14 seconds
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Clark Kellogg: From Playmaker to Commentator

This week on Point Forward Podcast, Ohio State icon and current broadcaster Clark Kellogg sits down with Andre and Evan to his journey from the court to the commentary box. Kellogg dives deep into the evolving landscape of college basketball, covering the impact of the transfer portal, athlete compensation, and the crucial role of education and accountability. Tune in to hear Kellogg's insights on the changes, challenges, and future of college sports, offering invaluable lessons for athletes and professionals alike. Tap in. Follow Point Forward on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok and YouTube. Part of SB Nation and the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
4/3/20241 hour, 5 minutes, 7 seconds
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Courts and Culture: The Point Forward Travel Guide

Join Andre and Evan on a journey through their favorite NBA cities as they share personal stories about team travel, detailing their favorite restaurants and shops in Miami, Chicago, New York and more. The duo discuss seeing the evolution of cities like Toronto and Boston first hand, and how NBA cities serve as a perfect blend of leisure, networking, and business. Learn about the unique opportunities NBA players have to connect, explore, and grow, both on and off the court. This episode is sponsored by Hennessy. Please drink responsibly. Follow for more from Point Forward: @Pointforward Everywhere: https://smarturl.it/pointforward Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
3/29/202422 minutes, 15 seconds
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Jamal Crawford's Basketball Journey: Breaking the Mold

In this episode of Point Forward, Andre and Evan welcome Seattle native Jamal Crawford, a player renowned for his unique on-court flair. Jamal opens up about his early days, the challenges he faced, including injuries and competition, and how his distinctive playing style and mental toughness propelled him from a quiet observer to a prominent leader in the league. The conversation explores the crucial roles of mental toughness, embracing opportunities, and the intersection of basketball with culture. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
3/27/20241 hour, 23 minutes, 14 seconds
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Authenticity and Ambition with Peloton's Jess Sims

Andre and Evan welcome Jess Sims from Peloton, sharing her inspiring journey from teaching to fitness stardom, all while emphasizing the power of authenticity and seizing opportunities. Jess delves into personal challenges, her approach to mental well-being, and the transformative power of self-care on her path to success. This heartfelt conversation promises to motivate and uplift, showcasing how staying true to oneself can unlock extraordinary achievements. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
3/22/20241 hour, 15 seconds
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Malik Mack Exclusive: Ivy League Life, Role Models, and Kyrie's Team USA Dream

Join Evan and Andre on this week’s episode of Point Forward, where Malik Mack shares stories about his transformative journey at Harvard, tackling stereotypes, balancing the rigor of academics with athletics, and his ambitious plans to empower his community through education. Evan and Andre dive into the significance of legacy in the world of sports, the evolving "face of the NBA," Kyrie’s desire to play for Team USA in Paris, and the globalization trend of the NBA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
3/20/20241 hour, 6 minutes, 18 seconds
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Megan Rapinoe LIVE at SXSW: Uniting Passion, Purpose, and Play

Join Andre, Evan and their special guest Megan Rapinoe for a compelling live discussion from the Vox Stage at SXSW in Austin, Texas. Megan opens up about her path to becoming an iconic figure in sports and activism, emphasizing the importance of using her voice for change. She dives into the challenges and triumphs of advocating for social issues, the exhilarating journey to championship wins, and the critical role of teamwork and mental fortitude in sports. Don't miss this inspiring conversation about the intersection of sports, politics, and personal legacy, where Megan shares insights on pushing boundaries and the future of women's sports. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
3/15/202455 minutes, 56 seconds
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NBA TV Shakeup, NCAA March Madness + Tournament Innovations & Elon's Bold Strategies

In this week's edition of Point Forward, join Andre and Evan as they dive into the heart of sports and business controversies. They kick off the discussion with a potentially game-changing NBA TV deal, explore the NCAA's innovative in-season tournament and the impact of NIL deals, and offer insights into NCAA Men's Basketball tournament futures. The episode takes an intriguing turn as they tackle the Tesla truck resale controversy and dissect Elon Musk's business strategies. Whether you're a sports fan, intrigued by the business behind the games, or fascinated by the intersection of technology and commerce, this episode is packed with analysis, opinions, and forecasts that you won't want to miss. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
3/13/202442 minutes, 34 seconds
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From Gridiron to Comedy with Spice Adams

Join Andre and Evan as they sit down with the electrifying Spice Adams on this week’s episode of Point Forward. Spice shares stories about his transition from the league to comedy and his lifelong passion for entertaining others. Adams reflects on his football career, his official retirement moment at a local White Castle, and the impact of playing for multiple NFL teams.  Dre and Evan also explore the rise of WNBA ticket prices due to Kaitlyn Clark's popularity and impact on the game. They explore the local economic implications of Clark's success and the excitement surrounding her career. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
3/8/202452 minutes, 29 seconds
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Illinois Finest (Feat. Shaun Livingston)

Andre and Evan sit down with the incomparable Shaun Livingston, exploring his journey from Illinois to the bright lights of the NBA. During the episode, Shaun opens up about the pivotal moments that defined his career, from the decision to bypass college and enter the NBA draft, to the gut-wrenching injury and subsequent rehabilitation. The conversation also delves into Shaun's journey of bouncing back and finding a role in the league. Shaun, Andre, and Evan share the lessons they learned from sports and the importance of finding gratitude and identity. The guys also discuss topics including: Caitlin Clark's record-breaking potential, the MVP race in the NBA, cognitive tests at the NFL Combine, and much, much more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
3/6/20241 hour, 36 minutes, 41 seconds
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Meet the Most Powerful Woman in Finance: Cathie Wood

Cathie Wood is the founder of ARK Invest, an American investment management firm estimated to be worth around $60 billion. We sat down with her this February to talk the idea of "ARK Invest" came to her, getting to this point of success, and being a true disruptor in the space. ...Not to mention how an athlete's ability to assess risk with the matter of seconds makes them a great fit for the world of investing. Dive in and let us know what you think! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
3/1/20241 hour, 12 minutes, 7 seconds
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Red Velvet (feat. Kevin Huerter)

Kevin Huerter joins the show to talk Sacramento Kings and his growth throughout the NBA. Before we dive in with Mr. Red Velvet himself, we're taking a hard look around the league to see who is primed for NBA Playoffs (the Celtics) and whose seeding is up in the air (every team in the West). Follow Point Forward on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok and YouTube. Part of SB Nation and the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
2/28/20241 hour, 27 minutes, 34 seconds
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Straight to the Bank… of America (feat. Dean Athanasia)

Today, hosts Andre Iguodala and Evan Turner are talking about their favorite topic with someone who knows it best, Dean Athanasia, the President of Regional Banking at Bank of America. Dean has been on the forefront of some of the biggest business moves that have kept Bank of America ahead of the industry - from digital banking to building genuine communities with their customers. And one of his biggest attributions to how he's learned to lead the way? His time playing football.  In the continued celebration of Martin Luther King Jr. *week, we had to shoutout two very important groups: our young, black NFL Quarterbacks (Stroud, Love, and Fields) and the group chat. And because it's a #BusinessFriday, we're tapping into one of the biggest questions thats been circulating around...what does living inside "your means" actually mean? Tap in! Follow Point Forward on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok and YouTube. Part of SB Nation and the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
1/19/20241 hour, 5 minutes, 28 seconds
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Shooters Shoot (feat. JJ Redick)

THE Jonathan Clay Redick joins us this week on Point Forward. Even while retired from the game, JJ Redick still continues to be one of the most prominent voices on the hardwood and in media as he was one of the first athletes to build his own platform that is still so beloved to this day. A true father and coach, he hands out gem after gem on the story of his success and what’s next.  And just before we talk game, we had to step back and take a look at the Detroit Pistons approaching a new historic record as they continue to inch closer to one of the longest losing streaks in NBA history. Is this the most bizarre streak the guys have witnessed? And wait - but this ain’t a tank though? What the hell would they be tanking for?  Tune in.  Follow Point Forward on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok and YouTube. Part of SB Nation and the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
12/20/20231 hour, 11 minutes, 13 seconds
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Sue-perstar (Feat. Sue Bird)

It’s not often you get to hear from one of the best to ever do it. But that’s what we have this week, as ANDRE IGUODALA and EVAN TURNER sat down with hoops legend SUE BIRD. The recently-retired Bird reflected on her two decades in the WNBA, shared stories about lessons learned at UConn, and even given Andre a little advice on life after Plus, Sue – who almost has too many titles to count, between the Seattle Storm, UConn, and Olympics – picks her favorite championship, and ranks her top five women’s players ever.  Before the interview, Andre and Evan dive deep on the recent merger between LIV Golf and the PGA, why it happened, and what the implications could be, and react to Lionel Messi signing with Inter Miami. Plus, Evan shares his experience at the Roots Picnic, and Andre talks about his exciting stake in Bay FC of the NWSL.    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
6/9/20231 hour, 6 minutes, 21 seconds
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Truth to Power

Andre Iguodala and Evan Turner are great friends. They’re also former NBA teammates whose versatility on the court endowed them with the nontraditional position that also happens to be the title of this podcast. But that’s not all. Extend those gifts off the court and you’ll find two truth-tellers who keep their finger on the pulse of sports, business, and culture. Each week join in as they unleash sharp analysis on everything from sports headlines & tech innovations to book reviews & internet memes. Throw in a rotating cast of some of the world’s most elite players, authors, musicians, and entrepreneurs, and Point Forward is a podcast taking the athlete conversation to the next level. Candid. Unconventional. Witty. Welcome to the future. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
3/4/20222 minutes, 12 seconds